Important in this genre?

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hencha
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Important in this genre?

Postby hencha » Wed May 18, 2016 10:56 am

What are the features you find most important in a squad based game?
End State developer
Mark13
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Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 8:18 pm

Re: Important in this genre?

Postby Mark13 » Sat May 21, 2016 9:28 pm

Few important features (for me) are...

- Turn-based (obviously) with plenty of action points. Not only two actions on turn (move and shoot). Too many game already has that shit (like new Xcom games). In theese kind of games, micromanaging your team to victory is the most fun part.
- Freedom of tactical choices on game like gear, starting point, stealth/full action, ect. depending of the mission of course.
- No false limitation of gear use (maybe some penalties with unfamiliar weapons). No unseen barriers that prevents you moving freely.
- Large variation of the missions. Some mission that you have plenty of time plan your moves, some that you have to act fast, some randomness (is that a word) different time different things can happent and enemy not always on same positions.
- Destroyable environment. Mandatory.

If you are familiar (and who wouldn't) about Silent Storm games, that should be your reference for outstanding game of this genre. Make larger gaming areas, not to have panzerkleins at the end, make the game harder right way (not panzerkleins or endless amount of enemys or invisible triggerpoints) and have things like airstrikes, artillery support and medics... then you have best tactical turn-based game ever made :D
Exotherme
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Re: Important in this genre?

Postby Exotherme » Mon May 23, 2016 12:24 pm

A few features I would like to see:

- An interruption system. Say a character makes a long move for 20 AP and spots an unseen enemy during the move after spending 8 AP. Then the movement should stop and lets the player keep on the original move or gives back 12 AP and lets the player choose another course of action.

- Realistic inventory management like in ArmA 3, with various tactical vests and the like. No magic pockets.

- A more or less free cam. Lines of sight are very important in tactical games and with some games it's not that easy to tell if a character can or not engage an enemy from a given position. If the cam can move freely on the three axis, the problem's gone. Alternatively a first person view like in 7.62 High Calibre or Space Hulk Ascension would neat.

- Mod tools. Off-topic I guess but mod tools can add so much to a game. One has simply to look at Door Kickers, ArmA or Men of War to see the importance of these.
Mark13
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Re: Important in this genre?

Postby Mark13 » Mon May 23, 2016 5:11 pm

I have to say that i agree all things mentioned on previous post :D

I would also like to see Silent Storm kind of moving. Moving without grids, but least on early screenshots grid is already there, so i guess we wont get that :roll:

About modding... I think it could be very wise move for developer too. Games like Arma2 and JA2 has kept selling years later, because good fan made mods (DayZ and JA2 v1.13).
jujax
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Re: Important in this genre?

Postby jujax » Mon May 23, 2016 7:21 pm

Hi,

I agree with the other posts.

I will add 2 key features for me because I loved Fallout Tactics, Jagged Alliance and Silent Storm :

1. The mercenaries / SWAT / operatives must have a story, stuff & maybe specific perks
this is mandatory
2. The solo campaign must be GOOD in story and in the difficulty matrix to the endgame.
3. The interface must be modern, efficient but must integrate some complexity in builds, skills, percs, ... Diablo 3 interface is very good to hide complexity but with the complex markers (i will speak only of the IHM, not the game who has not a good matrix in complexity, the game is way too easy).
4. Stuff should be upgradeable

4. "cerise sur le gateau", like in jagged alliance / BG, mercs should interact , like them, hate them and eventually should have synergies OR drawbacks with the good team.

For example :

Take 2 Elite characters, they hate themselves, if they are in the same team, they will do something risky or lose turn to harass the other peeps.
On the other hand, to people who ave good synergies could advance faster, do crossfire better...

My 2 cents for your game, i hope you will make something good.
hencha
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Re: Important in this genre?

Postby hencha » Tue May 24, 2016 8:09 am

Mark13 wrote:I have to say that i agree all things mentioned on previous post :D

I would also like to see Silent Storm kind of moving. Moving without grids, but least on early screenshots grid is already there, so i guess we wont get that :roll:

About modding... I think it could be very wise move for developer too. Games like Arma2 and JA2 has kept selling years later, because good fan made mods (DayZ and JA2 v1.13).


In my opinion the movement was one of the worse parts in Silent Storm (in addition to Panzerkleins).
End State developer
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Shadow
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Re: Important in this genre?

Postby Shadow » Tue May 24, 2016 10:22 am

I hope we can: (Movement):

- climb ladders
- crawl through enemy territory
- sneak and stealth kills from behind
- open doors and peek
- break through doors, surprise attack

I hope there will be (Missions/Story/AI/combat):

- Many different targets
- A cool story that holds everything together not just mission after mission without a plot
- Many different mercs/soldiers with own personalities not just random soldiers. You should care about your team
- AI that is challenging and promotes you to really think about your tactics
- a combat system that is fun with interruption, line of sight, hearing enemies
- A lootsystem, so that we can find new equipment from enemies and gear up
- Skillsystem and RPG elements
- Healthsystem with first aid kit, bandages (stop bleeding)
- Large levels with many objects (for cover)
- Different settings (forest, city, desert, winter, industry) for the maps

Overall the most features of JA2 would be great. But first focus on combat and movement. The movement and combat should be fun than you can build upon it.
hencha
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Re: Important in this genre?

Postby hencha » Wed May 25, 2016 6:39 am

Mark13 wrote:Few important features (for me) are...

- Turn-based (obviously) with plenty of action points. Not only two actions on turn (move and shoot). Too many game already has that shit (like new Xcom games). In theese kind of games, micromanaging your team to victory is the most fun part.


End State is based on action points. In order to make the gameplay smoother, the game shows how far you can move and still shoot. We want to enable situations, where you peek around the corner, shoot and hide.

- Freedom of tactical choices on game like gear, starting point, stealth/full action, ect. depending of the mission of course.


Naturally

- No false limitation of gear use (maybe some penalties with unfamiliar weapons). No unseen barriers that prevents you moving freely.


This ain't old D&D :) There are no other barriers than those bordering the level.

- Large variation of the missions. Some mission that you have plenty of time plan your moves, some that you have to act fast, some randomness (is that a word) different time different things can happent and enemy not always on same positions.


This is a sample of our design for variations in one particular mission. I hid some details just because we are not yet sure if everything will be in the final version. I tried to be brief and left most of the details, but you get the idea. In addition to mission variations, the enemy is controlled by and advanced AI and doesn't do the same things every time, nor are the enemy soldiers in the same spot every time.

Intel retrieval
Outside the mansion is a building which used to be servants’ quarters. Now *** has built a data center inside it. Your objective is to locate the data center and retrieve all available intel so we can find out where *** gets his weapons.

The player doesn’t actually need to go to the mansion. In the servants’ quarters, there is a room full of computers and servers. The player needs to find the right location, initiate the download and wait there for 2-3 turns while the enemy tries to attack.

Secure site
Your objective is to clear the site of all enemy presence. Don’t let *** escape. Outside the mansion is a building which used to be servants’ quarters. Now *** has built a data center inside it. You must ensure that data center stays intact.

The data center is an optional objective. In this mission, there is no extraction since every hostile is dead in the end

Demolition
Outside the mansion is a building which used to be servants’ quarters. Now *** has built a data center inside it. Your objective is to destroy the data center.

The destruction is dynamic and physics based. Several support points must be destroyed in order to collapse the building.

Tracking
We need to find out who is *** contact. In order to find out, you have to install a tracking device in his car, parked just outside the mansion. You must ensure that *** escapes in that particular vehicle. The mission is failed if *** dies or escapes before you have planted the tracking device.

VIP extraction
Our informant has hacked the data center just outside the mansion. Your objective is to get him safely to the extraction point. (The agent is controllable by the player and starts from the data center).

The agent is armed with a handgun but has no armor. The enemy doesn’t know his location in the beginning but is searching for him.

Hostage rescue
*** has captured two of our agents in his mansion. Your mission is to assault the mansion and escort the agents safely to the extraction point. Hostages are not controllable at the beginning of the mission.

The enemy might try to move the agents out of the building in a van. The player could prevent that by destroying the van outside the house.

HVT Capture
We need to capture *** alive in order to find out who he is working with. The player objective here is to capture him alive and get the team and the target to the extraction point. Additionally, the player should be able to retrieve his laptop.

- Destroyable environment. Mandatory.


Naturally. Who would make a game like this without destroyable environment??!

If you are familiar (and who wouldn't) about Silent Storm games, that should be your reference for outstanding game of this genre. Make larger gaming areas, not to have panzerkleins at the end, make the game harder right way (not panzerkleins or endless amount of enemys or invisible triggerpoints) and have things like airstrikes, artillery support and medics... then you have best tactical turn-based game ever made :D


Probably the best game ever made is still JA2, but we aim to change that at the latest with End State 2 ;)
End State developer
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Lego
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Re: Important in this genre?

Postby Lego » Mon May 30, 2016 10:38 pm

hencha wrote:What are the features you find most important in a squad based game?



To be able to interact with the game world without artificial restrictions or limitations.
Solid squad management.
Unique Characters with strong personalities, not just John Doe`s ;)
Ton of customization options.
hencha
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Posts: 41
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Re: Important in this genre?

Postby hencha » Tue May 31, 2016 8:23 am

Lego wrote:
hencha wrote:What are the features you find most important in a squad based game?



To be able to interact with the game world without artificial restrictions or limitations.
Solid squad management.
Unique Characters with strong personalities, not just John Doe`s ;)
Ton of customization options.



In my opinion the most memorable thing about JA2 were the mercs. However, it's not that easy when comparing to "John Does". It's quite hard to create 60+ different characters and get them all different voice acting. It's not impossible, but it's hard. We'll try to accomplish something at least something vaguely like that.
End State developer

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